Expressions of Desire vs Intent

[lavendertook]

By now, most of you have probably seen the account of the secret service's visit to anniesj's place. I didn't wade through the 3000+ comments, so I don't know what's on everyone's mind about this. However, I've come across a copy of what is supposed to be the original post that was saved by some people before anniej deleted it--anniej mentioned that these copies are floating about, so I'm just waiting to confirm where it came from before I link to it. If this is indeed the original post, I do not find any threat to anyone in it. It's in the format of a direct prayer; the first lines strongly indicating it is parody. The prayer is asking the said God to mortally smite Bush, i.e, a prayer for his death.

A prayer is a wish. A wish is not a threat. The expression of a wish or desire is not a statement of intent to do harm. Even without the layer of parody, a written WISH is not a THREAT. Without a real threat, what grounds could the ss have for visiting said poster except as an intimidation tactic? Are there any legitimate non-fascist reasons for this to occur? Thoughts.

On a personal level one person stating the wish to harm another can be construed as a threat, but the grounds are fuzzy--it is not legally the same as stating intent to do harm. And this is certainly not the same as wishing a divine being would do harm to another person as in the case above. So can the written expression of a person's wish to do harm upon a public figure with whom the subject of the wish has no direct personal involvement be legally contrued as a threat? This seems rather far-fetched to me as well. And a wish for a divine being to carry out the threat is even one more step removed. So is there any reason to NOT consider the ss's decision to visit a writer of such a statement as fascist?

I'm just puzzling through all this as I consider playing meme-style Spartacus with the original post, which seems the best way to combat the fear this incident seems to have instilled in the LJ community.

And tomorrow afternoon I'm off to Florida with 500 other Emily List volunteers to help encourage people to vote Democratic. Wish (desire/pray/or even intend for if you can) me roomates who Respect the Importance of Sleep. I won't be back until Wednesday, unless I get some internet access down there in the wilds of Florida. I will miss you all so much.

Comments

[barbary-coast.livejournal.com]

I'm proud of you for going to Florida to help out with the election.

I read anniesj's original post too. It was obnoxious and in extremely poor taste, but it wasn't a threat. It was a rant. Unfortunately for her, some malicious LJ user turned her in, and those agents had to do their job.

I don't know this person, but I am disappointed in anyone who rants like this. It's pointless. Get out and vote. Get involved. Don't sit at home and rant and do nothing. But any disappointment I feel in this person pales in comparison to the loathing that I feel for whatever partisan, nasty pin-head reported her to the feds. That person should be slapped. She thought it was funny to rat out someone she didn't like to the feds? Did she ever once pause to consider that she was only adding to the problem by wasting the time of these agents? Stupid cow. What has happened to America that we have come to this?

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

Thank you. (-:

I didn't see it as obnoxious or poor taste, nor did I find it particularly entertaining. It just seemed to be a run of the mill rant against the most powerful public official done up as a prayer, not much different than when a child says to her parents, "I hate you and I wish you'd die!"--the power relationship is rather similar. No matter what the person who contacted the secret service said, I can't see it as a legitimate part of their job to do more than look at the post in question. It wasn't a threat, and that's the extent to which their investigation could reasonably have gone, is what I'm thinking. No?

So what grounds did they have for visiting and questioning anniej? That's what I'm still wondering. They're not like 911 is for crime and emergencies--their job isn't to check out every citizen who another citizen accuses of threats, is it?

[barbary-coast.livejournal.com]

I did judge her original post to be in astoundingly bad taste. It was juvenile and pointless. If you don't like a politician, vote him out of office, don't pointlessly pray for his death. This user also ran a poll in her journal prompting people to describe how they would kill Bush. That's not only extremely bad taste IMO, it's purposeless. If the system is corrupt, change it. This country is supposed to be a functioning democracy.

As for the Secret Service, I do think that they are required to check out death threats against the President. We in fandom recognize a pointless rant when we see one. We know that the ranter was just blowing off steam. The Secret Service doesn't have that luxury. There are a lot of genuinely dangerous nutcases out there who also print rants like that one. The Secret Service can't sit back and say, 'Let's ignore this one. She's obviously a smart-mouthed little SF fan punk who's talking out her ass.' Unfortunately they have to waste a lot of time and money checking her off a list. Considering how extraordinarily unpopular G.W. Bush is, I'd say the list is gigantic.

People think that hyperbole like this is meaningless or even funny. It isn't. 'Ha, ha, ha, look how cool I am? I described killing the president, aren't I kewl?' Well no, you're not even remotely cool. Cool is getting on an airplane and flying to Florida to personally ensure that our election process remains free and accessible. Whining about killing a politician is astoundingly juvenile.

Regardless, that is still no justification for reporting her. Whichever LJer out there turned her in to the feds as a threat most definitely knew better and did it purely out of spite. I'd love to find the stupid punk and ask her what on earth she thought she would gain from it.

[polydad.livejournal.com]

Cops can *investigate* anything they want to. There are limits on *how*, but they're free to go talk to people about pretty much anything.

And yes, it frequently gets mis-used for intimidation. And intimidation is all of what this administration is about. And it's evil.

And you're going to Florida to do something about it, while I stay home and move. Please come visit me when you get back.

best,

Joel. Two blocks from where he'll be on Monday.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

I'm able to go, which a lot of folks aren't in the position to right now, like you having to move, so that's why I feel I have to.

Good luck with the move!(-:

[grayarcadian.livejournal.com]

Finally someone else is asking the same questions. I'd personnally add, "Is this an effiecent use of officers' time?" as well.

I feel like someone drew this line and everyone seems to be assuming they know where it is. I don't think with this administration we can assume anything or take any of our freedoms for granted.

I'm also ticked that law enforcement seems to be chasing targets that have nothing to do with securing us.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=816&e=1&u=/ap/20041028/ap_on_fe_st/toy_store_homeland_security

Also, see my journal for the romance writer tomfoolery...