The Energizer Bunnies of Racefail2009 . . .

[lavendertook]

. . .that would be Will Shetterly and Kathryn Cramer as evidenced by rydra_wong's links here. What we have here are sustained and relentless forms of derailment of a discussion on race and cultural appropriation in the form of petty and vengeful attacks, anything at all rather than consider that they are engaging in racist behavior and attempting to undermine the authority of POC to name their oppression by disappearing them from the conversation when dismissal didn't work. The heart of the matter is what browngirl says here:

. . . it's not Just Another Internet Fight. Mr. Shetterly and Ms. Kramer have taken these actions to dissuade people from disagreeing with them and those they support on the topic of racism in science fiction works and fandom. . . outing people's real identities or lying about who they are in order to stop them from discussing racism is wrong. Trying to dissuade people from discussing racism is wrong, not least in that it furthers racism.

You can also find the links to Avalon Willow's summary of prior events and rydra's full link compilation on browngirl's post above if you missed all that went down in these parts of fandom the past couple of months.

I'm so sorry for the crap these people are still putting coffeeandink, deepad, and vom_marlowe, in particular, through now.

I know it doesn't constitute a boycott, but for what little it's worth, I plan to never buy any book from which Cramer or Shetterly would reap the profits. I wasn't likely to buy anything ever of Shetterly's anyway, but Cramer's anthologies I might have--not now. I just don't want to promote these people in any way. So much for a peaceful snow day.

I'm hoping for good things to come from verb_noire press.

Comments

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

I just keep listening to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9FHbP2-of8) over and over again.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

It would be better to lose your mind than wake up to this shit. They act the fool so well, no one else could hold a candle, but no repercussions.

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

I'm so furious.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

These people are fucking infuriating and I want them out of my fandom and general world. *offers you angry, depressed hug if that helps when you're furious*

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

What I really want is for them to be made accountable for what they have done, but its unlikely. Will Sh***ly has a whole chorus of white folks saying 'but he's my friend and he's nice in person!' They both seem to exist in such rarefied and homogenous circles that it seems like nothing will actually make a difference, which I guess is the point.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

I don't understand this compartmentalizing of internet behavior from "Real Life" behavior, which comprises the other ways you communicate and interact. Overall I've found people to be fairly consistent in behaviors (which makes the irony of KC's focus on the labels in relation to WS's friend's claims of his Jekyll and Hyde behavior even greater.) How someone is on the internet, if it differs from how they act in person, is how they act with someone they feel they owe no accounting to. At some point, this behavior intersects with off line behaviors.

And at some point, you have to hold your friends accountable for how they treat other people, and wonder if they're just nice to you because of what you do for them, if you have any sense of ethics at all. The unquestioning loyalty thing that is so valued in the US, at least, is really pernicious--I'm starting to wonder if it's more of a white thing, too.

[esmeraldus-neo.livejournal.com]

I told womzilla that the tactic of outing people was wrong. He posted about handles today, and since he and I haven't directly bumped heads, I took that opportunity to say it.

It's not a lot.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

I'm a little confused on the segway from my comment to your comment here. On the handle issue, I think he's in agreement with us.

[esmeraldus-neo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, he is. What I wanted to ask and couldn't or don't know how, is "do you see this? does this change your thinking any?"

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

Well, maybe he'll see your question here and stop by and say.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

I think it's more of a geek thing in this case, as in the Geek Social Fallacies. But meshed with the "OMG MY FRIEND IS NOT A RACIST" reaction, oh, it's just ever such fun.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

That site you linked to on the Geek Fallacies is good--I hadn't seen that before. I'm not realysure though that geek circling of wagons here is any different formt he general white circling of wagons thing though.

[tielan]

but he's my friend and he's nice in person!

This I do not get. My friends can be assholes, too. That's not why I love them, any more than the situations where I am an asshole (why, yes, I have had my moments) are what they love me for.

One can be a nice person to your friends and an asshole to strangers. It's not unknown.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

I don't like hanging out with people who treat strangers like shit, though.

[tielan]

Absolutely. It's true that someone who's a bastard to people they don't know is likely to just be hiding their assholishness, and it may one day turn on you.

:(

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

Yup, there's that aspect where you may want to consider your own best protection.

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

I've been following this situation as best I could. It's all terribly sad. A really terrific discussion about race and cultural appropriation has been derailed in favor of name calling and this sort of petty, mean-spirited BS from Shetterly and Cramer.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

And their friends really do need to stand up publicly and say they don't support this crap, because why should they stop if they can go home to friends who support them?

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

I disagree. None of their friends has any obligation to publicly chastise them. In fact, I think that it is more effective for their friends to chastise them privately, away from the super-heated and perpetually public nature of the Internet.

There is a tendency for participants in online fights to draw a line in the pixels and demand that everyone and their brother publicly declare their stance and attack each other until one side "wins." I find that hugely distasteful. I truly don't care how virtuous the cause is, IMO, no one should be expected to publicly chastise their friends. I sure as hell wouldn't, though I would not hesitate to call them out on their bullshit offline.

I think it's dangerous to assume that these people 'go home to friends who support them' on this matter. The fact that their friends aren't calling them out over this online does not mean that they aren't doing it privately.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

Here's the problem. With Shetterly, his friends have been doing that. In fact I've heard that many of them have banned him from their journals. They say that offline he is really, really nice. So there's a disconnect there. Is someone who treats strangers like crap really, really nice because of how he acts to you in private? There's some really unhealthy enabling going on there.

But as for standing up publicly and defending the people your nasty friend is attacking--yeah, you do owe that to other people, or to stop being friends and enabling such behavior--and we're not just talking about any bad behavior here. We're talking about behaving racist--being crappy to people who already are dealing with tons of shit in that area. If you're being friends with someone who does this repeatedly, you're enabling them in their oppressive behavior--be it racism, sexism, homophobia. If you're not going to walk away from them, then you owe standing up for the people they're treating badly, and sometimes that means taking a public stand to defend them. I think that's part of having some integrity. Also, if you care about the folks on the other side of the divide and have friends on that side of the divide, then some of your stand must necessarily be public because you are dealing with multiple people.

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

I'm about 100% sure that Shetterly's RL friends call him out on his bullshit in person all the time. That they don't choose to do so in public for the benefit of everybody else is their choice and their right. No one is obligated to display their private life and their private discussions and actions online to make any sort of point about anything. The fact that his RL friends are not publicly calling him out does not make them racists by default. It doesn't make them hypocrites. It doesn't make them bad people. They're not 'enabling' Shetterly's bad behavior simply because they're not chastising him in public. The population on the internet who are participating in this very public display of bad behavior have no idea what is being said to Shetterly behind the scenes by his RL associates.

No one is obligated to take part in an internet fight if they don't want to, and from what I've seen, the original discussion has now devolved into a very ugly, very public fight between a couple of individuals. The moment a discussion devolves into, "You suck! NO, YOU SUCK!" is the moment I walk away from it. Any valid discussion about racism has devolved entirely into, "Everybody who thinks that Will Shetterly and that Cramer chick are bastards for harassing coffeeandink raise your hand and say, Aye!"

If I tell you that I happen to think that Will Shetterly is a complete jackass in RL and his current online behavior is deplorable, what does that tell you about my attitudes about racism or cultural appropriation? Nothing.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

You can walk away from it. Fans of color here can't. It doesn't stop for them. And that's when it's not just any old internet fight and a case of oh, both sides are behaving badly. The playing field is not level here.

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

I know that fans of color do not have a level playing field. That's what the original discussion was all about. I just don't think that anyone is even talking about that any more. Everyone appears to be focusing solely on what pair of bastards Shetterly and Cramer are. Well yes, they've both behaved deplorably and said ugly, awful things. The original, important discussion has been erased and replaced by this finger-pointing. I think this is a huge loss.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

The outing of coffeeandinkthis week is a serious violation levied by these people in order to intimidate those speaking out on racism, and WS and KC's timing of this is not incidental or can be written off as mere grudgewank--this calling out is important in relation to the heart of the matter here as I stated in this entry. Are you following some of the actions fans of color are taking in response to the derailment of this cultural appropriation discussion? There's lots going on. Oyce's post here is a great one.

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

I am in no way under-estimating the seriousness of what Shetterly and Cramer just did when they revealed
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I am in no way under-estimating the seriousness of what Shetterly and Cramer just did when they revealed coffeeandink's RL identity.

I don't believe that they did it with the intent of sabotaging the discussion of race and appropriation. IMO they did it because they are immature, vengeful jerks who were attacking this woman purely out of spite. IMO, and clearly you disagree, this latest round of outing her ID was a personal attack on her, not an attack on her message.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

In any event, this is the horrid consequence of what they have done.

[lalouve.livejournal.com]

And I'm friending you, if that's OK - it makes it easier for me to find the people who have something to say if I put them on my f-list...

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

That's perfectly OK--thank you, and welcome. I've seen you around and have thought of friending you before, so am friending back.

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

You probably should bring it up again, as you already have their ear. It's harrowing, but it would make them better writers and people if they could wrap their heads (and maybe hearts) around it. Or not!

[spiralsheep.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this post. I appreciate your conciseness in conveying the heart of the matter.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. browngirl defined it--I just added a frame for hanging it up on my wall.

[acrimonyastraea.livejournal.com]

I fail. This anonymous comment was me:

Hey! I'm glad you called my attenion back to this. OMFG. Even if no one reads my LJ I want to give whatever support I can to the people who have been hurt by those assholes.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

OMFG--is right. It's been . . . massive. I hadn't even read that post you're responding to. Your post is terrific--I'll drop a link to it by rydra, if that's OK.

[acrimonyastraea.livejournal.com]

Thanks, and sure, send it on if you like!

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

Oh, and here's another one with a massive case of entitlement--I started to lose it and had to disengage.

And I know I don't have the capability to engage in any constructive way here--just oy.

[acrimonyastraea.livejournal.com]

Good fucking lord. Officially jumping in on the first one because he's just such an IDIOT.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

The second post? She froze comments and stated that the post was a social experiment for a book she's writing. So she's not the racist she was pretending to be; she's a different fucked up sadistic racist. Psych!

[acrimonyastraea.livejournal.com]

WTF is wrong with people??

I got criticized for my *tone* by that eric guy. ROFL, oh the stupid. He's just a poor confused boy and I wasn't helpful AT ALL. I am so mean!

I did feel bad for just bursting in on someone else's journal, though, so I apologized. But I don't feel bad for calling out a stupid, ignorant comment.